I learned last night that people in the fireworks industry read this forum and take the comments very seriously, to the extent that they can be quite upset by some of the negative things people write.

As critics, we have to remember that the fireworks industry is about entertainment and we are very lucky to have such incredible displays year-in, year-out. Most people would be awestruck if they could see any one of the displays we see here on a regular basis. We are truly blessed. Hence we have to remember that every display that's put on at La Ronde, whether it is in competition or for some special purpose, like a tribute or closing show, takes an awful lot of passion and dedication to put on. In fact, the out-of-competition displays are even more challenging due to the ever present constraints on the budget. Putting on a 30-minute pyromusical at the La Ronde site is a very complex and expensive undertaking. This year is particularly challenging for everyone due to cuts to the budget - maybe that's why we're all noticing there's a little bit less sparkle than usual.

Speaking for myself, despite doing few shows, I know what an involved process it is and the constraints are ever-present. No matter how hard you work, it never comes out perfect, that's just the reality of the fireworks business.

So just to say that when we write our comments and thoughts, we must remember the passion and the dedication of the people we're critiquing. It's kind of like writing a restaurant review, everyone has their own taste and we don't always like what we get. This small industry carries a large burden in terms of the number of people that get entertained. Just something to bear in mind as we write our thoughts here.

Paul.

1 st of all hello to the forum. Like I think that you already know the entire pyro world follow the interesting and also the less interesting things that you all right on this forum. We follow it because mainly we can’t see the competition live all the years. It’s also an interesting way to know different points of view about one of the most old and famous international fireworks competition. And is because every one reads it, and not because I think that all the opinions writen in this forum are from people that know about what they are talking about, that I write today.

Is very normal for pyro designers to use ideas from shows that they have seen even that some times that use is not conscient. But since I take my work very serious I don’t like to be accused of copy other company on this way. I also can tell you that I have used this effect the 1st time in 1999 in other competition. In all the 3 shows that we displayed in Montreal we try to be very creative. I can’t guaranty that we didn’t find inspiration in other shows, but it have been always our propose to be creative.

Enjoy the good shows that you have opportunity to see, because they are made with very hard work

Vitor Machado

Welcome aboard on Montreal Fireworks Vitor!

Let me know when you come again in montreal, i suggest you good time in downtown with good grill and beer!

You doing great work, I'm glad to said you an honor!


Jerome

Is very normal for pyro designers to use ideas from shows that they have seen even that some times that use is not conscient. But since I take my work very serious I don’t like to be accused of copy other company on this way. I also can tell you that I have used this effect the 1st time in 1999 in other competition. In all the 3 shows that we displayed in Montreal we try to be very creative. I can’t guaranty that we didn’t find inspiration in other shows, but it have been always our propose to be creative.

Vitor, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. Luso has been one of the most creative entrant in the history of the Montreal competition.I just want to make clear that I didn't write - or wanted to suggest - that you copied the wave effect from Marutamaya in 2002. In fact, I really do know that design is planned several months in advance and can't be modified within a one week notice to "copy" or take inspiration of another contestant's idea.

Fred

Hi Vitor,

I'm glad that you registered to this forum ! I hope that you read the good comments that other forum members posted for your "And The Winner Is" display and the uproar that stemmed from your exclusion from the list of Jupiter winners. Unfortunately, I wasn't writing reports at the time, but I'd still like to congratulate you for this very interesting and well done entry.

_________________________________________________________________


That said, I see that my opinion regarding the perceived similitude between Royal Pyrotechnie's Bummel Petrus and Fireworks Spectaculars' Pink Panther sequences and my overall opinion on other displays seemed to have caused a commotion among some designers and I'd like to clarify a few points :

First, I know that some sequences are bound to be repeated from one show to the other. The water skipping roman candles are an example of this, and nowhere in my review have I blamed Brad Dezotell from having used them. These sequences are now so common that it has to be some kind of repetition.

Second, very unusual (and original) sequences like the Bummel Petrus segment (and Vitors' Mission:Impossible gerbs run for instance) leave a deep impression to the audience members. Therefore, if another firm coincidentally do a similar thing in such a short timeframe (Royal Pyrotechnie and Fireworks Spectaculars displays were exactly one year apart from each other), one can't help but wonder if the designer of the second show may have taken inspiration from the previous display.

Yes, "rip-off" may seem harsh to some, but sometimes the similitudes are really staggering, as it was the case last Saturday. Fortunately, M. Dezotell was there to rectify my hypothesis (and note that I retracted my opinion afterwards, as I've been proven wrong), so in my mind the damage was minimal. And what damage would that be ? Bad critics are bound to happen. It's the same thing than movie critics that may pan a movie that seems to be too "Insert successful film here"-alike, even though the director may not have even seen or taken inspiration from said movie.

Also, my humble opinion does not bear any importance whatsoever on the jury's evaluation. I repeat myself : I really hope that Fireworks Spectaculars come back in a few weeks to get the Jupiter that they deserve.

Third, what's the shame about being inspired by another successful designer ? I mean, no one creates in a vacuum and must be influenced somewhat by other people's work, isn't it ?

Are Coldplay songs any less good because they take some inspiration from U2 and Radiohead ? I don't think so.

Therefore, I don't quite understand what's the problem when someone accuses (oh, bad word) a fireworks designer of having been inspired by another, gold Jupiter-winning, one. I for one would take it as a compliment, but I'm not quite experienced enough to design La Ronde shows just yet (and by a very large margin - I'll have my first ever design shot in a few weeks at the PGI convention). Maybe the designer's mindset changes when they are experienced enough, that I don't know.

Fourth, now that Internet allows spectators to express their opinion in a public fashion, I think that some incidents like this can and will happen. I think that it might have been easier on the designers ego before Internet and communities such as this one were present : the jury's grades were kept private, so a designer didn't knew if their display was fourth or last in the final results if they didn't win anything.

Now that people's opinions are so widely available, I suppose that it can really be difficult for designers to see that their show did not fare well with them, as the work they put in their show really is staggering.

Yet, fireworks is all about entertaining people. Personnally, I'd think that being able to have the spectators pinpoint the display's weaknesses is an advantage, as the recipe for having a very successful display is laid before one's eyes. We, as non-professional critics, don't have the absolute truth, I know that, but I guess that by having seen a lot of displays in Montreal, we now know what it takes to be on the podium. Therefore, hearing that people from the industry are disappointed and frustrated by our negative comments is odd. Clearly, they don't seem to understand what our comments really are about:

Yes, we like the fireworks presented before our eyes.
Yes, we consider ourselves lucky to be able to witness such magnificent displays.
Yes, we'd like you to come back soon !
Yes, we hope that you'll do what it takes to win.

No, we can't like everything.
No, I won't censor myself...


Sometimes, people say that fireworks and other forms of culture don't compare. I beg to differ.

Yes, you have constraints that cinema and music artists might not have, but the opposite holds also true.

When a cinema production firm drops tens of millions (if not hundreds) of dollars and thousands of man-hours on a movie, people might still find it ultimately boring and critics might give it 1/5. Hard to swallow considering the effort put in it, but if it fails to entertain, then it missed the mark. Sad but true.

Yes, a fireworks designer might create an exceptional extravaganza, order the best of the best products, use very unusual firing patterns, push the envelope to the limits, but the jury members and the public have the final say.

Yes, technical problems can happen, I know that. Yet, we can only judge what we saw. We'd like to see the display as you imagined it (really !), but the physical world causes some products to refuse to ignite, firing systems to stop working, set pieces to fail to work as intended or even wrong products to be shipped by the manufacturer.

We're not aware of that, unfortunately. From our position in the grandstands (or around La Ronde), we don't know what happens on the ramps or in the control room. Therefore, it may be injust to some when we write negative reviews when technical problems spoiled a display, but we really write about what we saw.

Again, we don't know your design process, so we can't know either your design was 100% yours or 98% because you decided to borrow a successful segment from a Jupiter-winning display.

We Are Not In Your Head


In all cases, I'd like the professionnal fireworks community to learn how to deal with harsher reviews instead of getting frustrated. People will write more and more their opinion as blogs, Facebook and Twitter continue to gain popularity.

If your display was really boring and you appeared to be hopeless (hey, it's just an example, I'm not naming anyone), then people won't go to such great lengths to express their opinion.

I estimate that I put 4-5 hours (if not more) on each review that I write. Yes, the amount of effort that you put in your own display dwarfs my own implication, but I'm not paid by anyone. I do it just because you lead me to love fireworks. All of you.

I would not go to such great lengths on my own personal time if each and every company that I've seen in La Ronde did not fueled my interest somewhat.

Take what I say with a grain of salt if you have to, but please don't get offended if I dare say that your display contained too much kamuros, crossettes and what-not.

But, by all means, continue to light Montreal's sky !




EDIT : Now that Paul moved the conversation to the proper thread, I edited slightly my post to put readers in context.

Note I moved the above posts to this thread as it's more appropriate and isn't specific to discussions about the recent FSC show. Note that it's not easy for me to move posts between topics (requires direct access to the MySQL database records to achieve).

[edit: thanks to everyone for contributing to this debate]

Paul.