Well, ok, the weak point of the Argentinian display was the theme, no doubt. It was poor and impossible to compare with Pains theme or even Igual, were there was a plot and the segments worked perfectly together. However I'm not judgint only the theme, Im trying to judge the entier display, and for me the Jupiter's show was better than the Chinese and Igual and of course Asutralia. Now I'm not sure if it was better than the English but I'm sure it was a good display, at least for me. I enjoyed most of the segments, and of course the finale and the opening (for me the best this year). It was a classic display, timeless, I enjoyed the video much more than in the case of the english display.

HOWEVER: maybe I'll change my ranking, but only one position and due to the lack of theme in the Jupiter's display:

1- Pains
2- Jupiter
3- Igual
4- Pyromagic
5- Foti

It is interesting to read the very widely diverging opinions here, especially the comments relating to the perceived lack of a theme or the theme being unoriginal. This is especially mystifying and demonstrates how culturally sensitive music is. For people with Latin American roots, the theme was very clear with all the major developments of the Tango and its key originators (and, at the time, controversial detractors, such as Astor Piazzolla) were present, including current development into other areas. For people who haven't lived this, it probably all appeared to be somewhat indistinguishable. I'm sure that, to people how have not grown up in the Quebec culture, a theme which assembled music from this Province, with some of the key developers, could appear equally undistinguished too, this would be no less original than Jupiter's theme. I wonder how these same detractors will deal with the upcoming displays that are going to use film soundtracks as their basis? Are these also unoriginal and without a theme? I guess we will see.

As for the fireworks themselves, I'm surprised Fred would mark down the technical design due to a firing problem - firing problems are almost always unrelated to the true technical design - the firing site at La Ronde is complex and has its issues - sometimes these are seen and sometimes not but there are no displays fired in the competition that do not have some sort of "technical problem". Jupiter were just unlucky that their technical problem was during a particularly quiet part of the show. To my mind, the technical design was very innovative with the use of the "sticks" and other effects that we have never seen before. Whilst some people may have found the gerb firings somewhat random, for anyone who has actually danced the Tango it would have been immediately obvious that the gerbs were firing the dance steps. Again, it's a cultural background issue - if you don't have the cultural references, then much of the artistry and subtlety is lost.

Finally, I think maybe we all get too hung up on the theme anyway. Many of the Gold Jupiter winning displays in the history of the competition have really had no theme in the "story telling" sense. Look at Pyrotechnico's display last year - it was a fantastic display that deserved to win, but what was the "story" that was being told? When one attends a concert, is it expected that the performances form an identifiable theme? Maybe in the case of a musical or an opera, but for those other kinds of performances, does that make them less valid and entertaining? I think this latter word is key. The audience want to be entertained - that's what performances are all about - quiet different from an art exhibition where the aim is not necessarily entertainment at all.

I enjoyed Jupiter's display and thought the quality of the fireworks used was of the highest quality. There was a repetitiion of some effects, but sometime repetition is a good thing (in the case of the studatas and farfalles) and sometimes it not (in the case of the dim willow shells which I happen not to like too much). Repetition is the most commonly used element in music anyway as it is used for reinforcement and recapitulation. But, as always, it's always in the eyes and ears of the beholders.

Paul.

Uhmmm.

I discovered the Tango in 2005 after seeig in La Ronde the Jupiter's display. So this is not exactly why I loved the show, because I'm not a big fan of this kind music.

However, it's true that also in 2005, the canadian display was about the Montreal history (Au pied du courant, right?). In this case I didn't feel the display at all. For me the theme was extrange, there was theme, it was not indistinguishable but for me without feeling.

Remeber please that in this case, the canadian company won the Bronze Jupiter and they didn't deserve it, right? The display was not better than the Swedish or the Portuguese.

So I think the theme is a good way to take advantage of the display, but it don't have to be the only premise to win (as in 2005 with the canadian display). If the quality of the display is good, the synchronitzation too and there is creativity and feeling in the show then there is a good show, if moreover there is a strong theme (like for example England in 2007) then it is a masterpiece.


Ps: Could you tell me what is a "Dim Willow", which effect is this? Is it the same than a horsetail? Could you tell me in which segment they appeared? Thanks !

Fireworks alone is already an art so why add up another form of art.... It's good to have a very strong theme but there's gonna be a lot more shows that will be presented that won't have strong themes but technically and pyrotechnically, the show will be top notch. For me what makes this competition different is not the part where each of the competitors need to engrave their shows in one theme but also because this is where they can show the new stuff (domes, towers,controlled movement gerbs, jumping fountains, etc.). It's a pyromusical competition so we might as well let the pyromusical speak for themselves... (If that makes sense -_-) For me, focusing on big shells, big finales, amazing one shots, superb synchronization's much more accepted than focusing on the theme too much since this are the components that makes up a good pyromusical... While the theme's there just to give the show a title

Vander

Whenever I watch a display in Montreal, I always look for a number of important factors, including a well thought-out theme, good product quality, a strong finale and an overall exciting performance - essentially the full package. For myself, I don't think a theme is the most important part to the success of a display, but it does play a fair role merely because it provides a sort of foundation for a show to be supported in whatever way - it serves as a guideline, then, in telling the audience what is to be expected and how the theme will be represented. If it deviates, it can cause the display to lose its vitality.

On the other hand, after watching the fireworks for 20 years, I can safely say that the vast majority of the audience wants to be entertained. With all honesty, the more powerful a display is, in general, the more I enjoy it, especially if the theme calls for it - this is probably why I enjoyed Argentina's performance to some extent despite the theme seeming as if it were demonstrated in a very simplistic fashion, to me, at least.

In either case, the array of arguments shown here just illustrates how the fireworks excite everyone in different ways - that's what makes things interesting. At this point in time, I have Argentina's performance in contention for the Bronze.

Trav.

Wow, this thread has been filling up pretty quickly in the last few hours. This reminds me of last year's competition when the last participant had passed and we were all waiting to learn which three firms would earn a place on the podium.

As I have always written in my comments over the years, when it comes to "predict" which firms will make it to the podium, there are no right or wrong answers! No matter what kind of soundtrack, shells, firing technique.....no matter if you are a spectator who has a lot of knowledge in pyrotechnics or just a mere amateur, what counts is being ENTERTAINED by the firework display! I am glad to see that Paul, Travis and others agree with me on that. One firm can use original shells, a unique soundtrack, have perfect synchronization, fill the sky from ground level to the highest level....left and right, they can meet all the criterias that one firm should fill for the members of the jury, but if they don't succeed in entertaining ONE person, they have failed for that person.....and that person is TOTALLY RIGHT to say that they have failed.....even if the rest of the universe was entertained. That being said, all these comments in the forum are and should be perfectly acceptable, because we all have our own personal standards of "entertainment".

So, I am anxiously awaiting the Canadian display to see if they will "entertain" me.....

Pierre

Oh....I almost forgot.......Travis, I hope you are enjoying today to the fullest, my friend!

Pierre

Wow, what a large range of opinions for Team Argentina

As a pyromusical display, I thought the quality of products used and the synchronization employed was simply fantastic. Based on the crowd's reaction, I believe this team diffidently deserves to be on the podium (... so far).

This display also reminds me of their Gold Jupiter awarded display in 2005. That show was perfectly executed, getting very high marks from me (for those of you who don't know, I was a judge in 2005). The quality of the products used was fabulous. The colors and effects used were both beautiful and artistic. The fireworks were literally dancing with the music.

As a minor aspect of their 2009 display, the music chosen is very similar to the one used in 2005. However, both soundtracks were interesting to listen to.

As for the theme criteria for this year's competition, it's an interesting idea, creating some diversity. However, it should not be the sole component for judging a display. It is, after all, a FIREWORKS competition. For the people interested in themes ... the pyrotechnicians may always write essays to please your needs

Dan

Here's my review ! Mylene et Artifice

As for the fireworks themselves, I'm surprised Fred would mark down the technical design due to a firing problem - firing problems are almost always unrelated to the true technical design - the firing site at La Ronde is complex and has its issues - sometimes these are seen and sometimes not but there are no displays fired in the competition that do not have some sort of "technical problem".

Well, the definition of "technical design" includes how constant a display is. Since a complete lack of fireworks obviously impacts the continuity of a show, I reduced the mark according to this criteria. You can link this problem to another part of the evaluation grid if you want, and it is true that many displays have some sort of technical problems, but, unfortunately for the Argentinian entrant, this one was obvious for all audience and we can't judge the display without taking this problem into consideration.

Finally, I think maybe we all get too hung up on the theme anyway. Many of the Gold Jupiter winning displays in the history of the competition have really had no theme in the "story telling" sense.

I agree. I believe that the theme should matters (and it matters according to the evaluation grid) but I'm sure that it doesn't for most of the audience.

Fred

Hi Pierre,

Thank you so much for your good wishes for my birthday yesterday (the 21st)! I really did enjoy the day to the highest extent since the weather was more Summer-like (the first day hitting 27 C or more in July). Though it is a wet evening-overnight (there were many signs suggesting that when I was on the 401 earlier in the day) as well as into a fair portion of the day today, I'm thinking that the temperatures will be a little higher than what most forecasts are currently saying since there's some chance for the sun to come out in the afternoon hours. Yesterday was fantastic. I spent virtually the entire day in one of my favorite parks in Morrisburg, Ontario, which is about 30 km Southwest of Cornwall. Cloudy skies, gentle Easterlies, mild humidity and warm temperatures made the experience simply wonderful! I had a great time!

Hi Fred,

I understand your point. Touching on what was mentioned on this forum several times in the past, the judges must evaluate a display based on what they see. And yes, as I said, the theme is important because it gives a display meaning and relevance - after all, why, then, does every show have a title to begin with, right? When a theme is given out, it should be represented in the best and most creative manner possible, while choosing the most appropriate colors, effects, etc to support it. However, while a good thematic connection is important, it isn't the only factor that brings the success of a display. That said, a display never really has, in my mind, 100% cohesiveness with its respective theme, even the highly successful ones in that regard. Also keep in mind that we don't really know how the judges perceive the theme-display connection, either, and that goes for all of the performances. In the end, a display needs to entertain the audience, and in order to do this, it must be successful in every regard (kind of like Portugal 2008, although they didn't win for reasons that still escape me).

And speaking of this year's fireworks, as I briefly mentioned to Enkil, I don't know about you guys, but this doesn't really feel much like a 25th anniversary for the competition, at least by comparison to 2004 (the 20th) - somehow there's something missing. Maybe it was just that the weather wasn't the greatest for most of this Summer. Also, the winning teams aren't even going to be known before the closing show, which is really disappointing.

Trav.

First of all: Thank you for posting the videos, Paul! It's great to follow it on the side from another corner of the world.

Some quick "comments on the comments" of Jupiters display:

First of all I believe it's paramount to have a well defined theme. In my world there are two groups of pyromusical designers:
1) The ones who are capable of creating a red line through the soundtrack so the music just flows in the half hour. Prime examples are Royal in 2003, Weco in 2004 - and also the shows by Jupiter.
2) "The rest" who are able to choose e.g. 10 pieces of music which can be good in itself but combined makes a weird overall impression of the conception. Of course it's not a question of "doing art at a level so high nobody will understand it" but the general public apreciate to have a story told. In extreme cases I personally find it very distractive that the style of music goes something like...
Conquest of Paradise --> We will rock you --> Barcelona --> O Fortuna --> My heart goes on --> Darude/Sandstorm
Overexaggeration may be present ;-)

On the technical aspects it naturally affects the enjoyment when there's dark periods, but to me it's not a big issue as long as the designer have some clever thoughts of the show
But surely the jury can only "judge what they see" and not what the designer had in mind so it's inavoidably going to affect to some extend.

Personally I loved Jupiters display. They had a great theme, fantastic products and a great choreography. Particularly delicious were the gerb-runs in front - thumbs up for creativity! And Benito's shells are hard to beat also

Wish I could be there to see the shows like you guys - enjoy it for all of us!

BR,
Lars